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? Cuba - My Play Ground - Keep 'Em Poor?

There is an organized group of posters on the internet who are not tippers of either cash or gifts and want you to join their mind set.
Their negative posts regarding high profile resort workers annoy me. They remind me of my first visit to Mexico about 35 years ago. I was " Walking The Streets Of Mexico " in Tijuana and by chance bumped into some young " BUCKS " from Huntington Beach California. After a few minutes of small talk one of the " BUCKS " said to me " Don’t spoil it for us never tip a Mexican and always barter prices down. "{ I asked why and he said " This is our play g- keep 'em poor "{

I think that you have created a conspiracy that doesn’t exist.

Read some of the posts by Don Tomas - Si !!!

I have read his posts. That doesn’t make a conspiracy. Tourists can have both a negative and positive effect on the people of where they travel.

if I may use the example of one of your earlier posts where you encounter a small child that that say"Are you enjoying my country?" and then give him some candy. Did a bell go off in that child’s head where he realized that if he talked to strangers that they would give him candy?

Someone walks into a village and gives out gifts to people that he or she has never met before. next time someone walks into that town, the villagers will be lining up expecting something.

In some of the countries that i have visited like Tanzania and Mexico, tour guides repeatedly tell us not to give things to people. They did not want to see their fellow countrymen turn into beggars chasing tour buses for hand outs.

If you wanted to stir the pot Cubaking, whichii think you are well aware that you are doing,job done.

Churches are a good place to give childrens clothes as are hospitals - Si !!! All of my childrens clothes/shoes are handed on after they out grow them.

Another great way to get gifts to the needy - your travel rep. at the resort or the Guest Relations Manager.

A conspiracy can only exist in the mind of someone who is willing to believe it.
Not everyone does!

[quote=@cubakingone]There is an organized group of posters on the internet who are not tippers of either cash or gifts and want you to join their mind set.
[/quote]That is utter claptrap, Gordon.

DT, myself and the many others that you badger about this have NEVER said to not gift or tip, our only point has been to act responsibly and that means not gifting willy nilly to strangers.

Cheers,
Terry

If you travel to Cuba you are supporting the economy and every worker in the hospitality industry and all the spin off businesses. This is a good thing! You buy local art…you support the local talent. A very good thing!

Is tipping required - no…it is not … is gifting required - the answer there is no also.

Whether you decide to tip or gift the choice is your’s and your’s alone it is NOT a requirement of travel.

I am not going to debate the corruption that either gifting not tipping costs any culture but I have seen when done improperly what it can do… And my personal choice is … I do gift to people I know, and know well enough that I can choose a colour of T-towel that will match their kitchen & what size of shoe they wear. I tip, if and when, it is appropriate. And for charity I donate to an organization like The Dubois Charitable Foundation who has researched and follow -up on where things are needed the most.

I am strongly against the “throwing candy from a bus” type of gifting. It only feeds the ego of the person who believes this is helping and that no matter what anyone says they are right.

Really?

In the 14 years that I’ve been active in Cuba travel forums it seemed to me that Cubaking (Gordon) is harassed more often than not, to the point of being banned continually, just because he has different opinions or is misunderstood/misinterpreted.

I like to think people are intelligent enough to make up their own minds about what they consider to be right or wrong. We all have different lifestyles, standards and philosophies. Being able to voice our differing opinions in a respectful manner is what makes Debbie’s forum more enjoyable than many other forums.

Cheers,
Cristal

I think the concept of having anything organized on the internet is questionable at best.

People will gravitate to where the feel most comfortable. I think initially people come to forums seeking advice . Travel agents for the longest time and then returning guests were the only source of information especially as Cuba started to open up to tourists. Now there are forums of people who have taken trips, have 1st hand accounts of what they see. Some are more passionate than others on certain topics. below are a few that time and time again are trumpeted as hot topics.

Tipping & gifts
Towel wars & saving loungers
Do not feed the fish
and lets not forget …how bad IS the food?

I do not see it as a conspiracy of messages…just people who are more knowledgeable sharing with people who either are unaware or want to know the variables. How they decide to act is their choice.

[i]Really?

In the 14 years that I’ve been active in Cuba travel forums it seemed to me that Cubaking (Gordon) is harassed more often than not, to the point of being banned continually, just because he has different opinions or is misunderstood/misinterpreted.

I like to think people are intelligent enough to make up their own minds about what they consider to be right or wrong. We all have different lifestyles, standards and philosophies. Being able to voice our differing opinions in a respectful manner is what makes Debbie’s forum more enjoyable than many other forums.[/i]

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Yes, really Crystal!

I agree entirely with your post, but when lies are posted I have to speak up.

My Reply #7 is 100% accurate. Neither DT nor myself nor the other “organized group of posters” that Gordon constantly refers to has ever said ANY of the things that Gordon keeps claiming over and over and over.

Cheers,
Terry

I think that some posters do go way over the top in anti gifting tirades (yes, Don Tomas is certainly one), and the result may often be the opposite of what is intended. Alienate someone and it is unlikely they are going to adopt your point of view. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but people do need to learn diplomacy if they want to be taken seriously. And yes, I know I am equally guilty at times when it is an issue I am passionate about, but I do try to be civil. (I have been on the receiving end of DT’s invective, and it isn’t fun. But I’m still here, and I certainly don’t support banning anyone).

[quote=@cheersterry]

Yes, really Crystal!

I agree entirely with your post, but when lies are posted I have to speak up.

My Reply #7 is 100% accurate. Neither DT nor myself nor the other “organized group of posters” that Gordon constantly refers to has ever said ANY of the things that Gordon keeps claiming over and over and over.

Cheers,
Terry[/quote]

Oh how I wish I had never deleted all of my PMs when I first learned that Debbie’s was shutting down!

While I and others don’t always agree with everything Cubaking says, I’ve never known him break the forum posting rules at Debbie’s or TripAdvisor. How is it that he constantly gets banned? By whom? Why?

What I appreciate about Gordon is his knowledge of Cuba, especially from the perspective of him being the father of two children he feels are better off being raised in Cuba than in Canada. I also appreciate Bellagio’s knowledge of Banes as much as Don Tomas’ and your (cheersterry) knowledge of Havana. I can relate to all, but am well travelled enough to know that what happens in one area doesn’t always apply to the other or across the board for all of Cuba. My experience in the former East Germany made it clear that what happened in Berlin wasn’t even close to what was happening elsewhere in the country.

I have to also agree with the title of this thread because of a similar experience we had in Acapulco back in 1975. Like it or not, some travellers seem to feel that keeping indigenous populations poor, gives them the advantage in that particular foreign destination.

[quote=@canuks]I think the concept of having anything organized on the internet is questionable at best.

[/quote]

Flashmobs come to mind as an excellent example of internet organized activity.

 Cuba is one million  short - or  substandard houses. The poorest part of Cuba are the Eastern Provinces.